Hello Mandarine. As always, I enjoy your philosophical musings. I have tagged you in a new game. . . directions to the rules are at my blog if you want to play.
I will play. It may take a while, though, because there are two other memes for which I have been tagged that I have to publish first: the ‘[my name] needs’-google meme, and Emily’s ten compliments meme.
You are so right. I’m going go spend the next month trying to be like you and viewing all humans as irrational beings and see what happens. (I’m probably going to end up doubled over with inexplicable laughter quite a lot. We’ll see.) Meanwhile, here’s proof that our attitudes toward animals are completely irrational. On the one hand, we’ll do as you demonstrate, and say, “Oh, he can’t help it that he tore a hole in the couch. He’s just a dog,” and be much nicer than we would be were our best friend to tear a hole in the couch, but then we’ll turn around and say, “He’s just a dog. He doesn’t have any feelings.” I don’t agree at all with the latter statement, but lots of people do. If he doesn’t have any feelings, then reason would lead a rational person to believe that yelling at him for tearing a hole in the couch is going to do much less damage than yelling at your best friend who just tore a hole in the couch.
I do believe people are slowly changing their minds about animals and feelings. Mine is made up: all our feelings are animal. What is human is our way of trying to express them in rational ways (e.g. with language). You just gave me a great idea for another article.
It’s so strange, I recently started a short story on the exact same incident you mention in your post. Except that to me, destroying his mother’s flower was the sign of the child’s very evil intention… I think your post might really have an influence over this short story’ conclusion. Thanks!
I like the idea of regarding negative rhetoric as “mere barks of presence.” To me contentment stems from the reception of events, good or bad. When someone says something that I percieve as injurious or hurtful I will remember your post. And in the meantime work on not “barking” so much myself.
Ian: I can assure you I have met many people who say rude or offensive things just because it is their way of having their existence acknowledged. And many other people who do not have a clue that what they say might be perceived as injurious or hurtful. The probability that an offensive remark is really really intended to offend is maybe smaller than one in a hundred. Or I am a naive dreamer. Take your pick.
I love this train of thought. Reminds me of a quote about wild geese, which I think was thought of by Mary Oliver and which I’ll doubtless mis-quote: “wild gees have no intent to travel; water, no {something} to receive their image.” Anyway, same thing.
I think we cast heavier responsibilities for actions on humans for two reasons: we think they have a choice, which goes back to your theory of rational acts, and for everything that happens, humans need a reason. Again with the rational/causal thing we seem to need. The concept of accidents seems to be beyond us. Believing in accidents, serendipity, the absence of cause, is akin to forgiveness; but not exactly the same. Or maybe they’re both part of that section in our brains which almost never lights up.
I know this: my big human brain is tired of trying to find a reason for everything…
Wonderful, wonderful post. We do it all the time, but it was still an epiphany of sorts to read about the wickedness associated with acting irrationally and then rationalizing our actions. I am loving these pencasts.
J. M. Coetzee would agree with the central idea of this post.
I am so glad you like the pencast concept. I am in the process of stabilizing the technological details, then I intend to publish a tutorial on pencasting in the near future.
An animal is an easy target most of the time. They can’t say stop, don’t hit me or please feed me before I starve to death.
I have worked with abused and abandoned animals…I have seen alot of abused animals. Not a one of them deserved that…no one does, animal or person. We seem to not have any respect for life anymore.
Chris, probably your comments relates more to the other article, entitled ‘and vice-versa’ (i.e. why don’t we treat animals more like people). I do agree that a lot of animals are treated badly, but here I was referring to those animals that are treated kindly, and making a point about how we are sometimes more indulgent with what animals do than wit what people do.
Hello Mandarine. As always, I enjoy your philosophical musings. I have tagged you in a new game. . . directions to the rules are at my blog if you want to play.
I will play. It may take a while, though, because there are two other memes for which I have been tagged that I have to publish first: the ‘[my name] needs’-google meme, and Emily’s ten compliments meme.
You are so right. I’m going go spend the next month trying to be like you and viewing all humans as irrational beings and see what happens. (I’m probably going to end up doubled over with inexplicable laughter quite a lot. We’ll see.) Meanwhile, here’s proof that our attitudes toward animals are completely irrational. On the one hand, we’ll do as you demonstrate, and say, “Oh, he can’t help it that he tore a hole in the couch. He’s just a dog,” and be much nicer than we would be were our best friend to tear a hole in the couch, but then we’ll turn around and say, “He’s just a dog. He doesn’t have any feelings.” I don’t agree at all with the latter statement, but lots of people do. If he doesn’t have any feelings, then reason would lead a rational person to believe that yelling at him for tearing a hole in the couch is going to do much less damage than yelling at your best friend who just tore a hole in the couch.
I do believe people are slowly changing their minds about animals and feelings. Mine is made up: all our feelings are animal. What is human is our way of trying to express them in rational ways (e.g. with language). You just gave me a great idea for another article.
It’s so strange, I recently started a short story on the exact same incident you mention in your post. Except that to me, destroying his mother’s flower was the sign of the child’s very evil intention… I think your post might really have an influence over this short story’ conclusion. Thanks!
I like the idea of regarding negative rhetoric as “mere barks of presence.” To me contentment stems from the reception of events, good or bad. When someone says something that I percieve as injurious or hurtful I will remember your post. And in the meantime work on not “barking” so much myself.
Smithereens: I am flattered.
Ian: I can assure you I have met many people who say rude or offensive things just because it is their way of having their existence acknowledged. And many other people who do not have a clue that what they say might be perceived as injurious or hurtful. The probability that an offensive remark is really really intended to offend is maybe smaller than one in a hundred. Or I am a naive dreamer. Take your pick.
I love this train of thought. Reminds me of a quote about wild geese, which I think was thought of by Mary Oliver and which I’ll doubtless mis-quote: “wild gees have no intent to travel; water, no {something} to receive their image.” Anyway, same thing.
I think we cast heavier responsibilities for actions on humans for two reasons: we think they have a choice, which goes back to your theory of rational acts, and for everything that happens, humans need a reason. Again with the rational/causal thing we seem to need. The concept of accidents seems to be beyond us. Believing in accidents, serendipity, the absence of cause, is akin to forgiveness; but not exactly the same. Or maybe they’re both part of that section in our brains which almost never lights up.
I know this: my big human brain is tired of trying to find a reason for everything…
I have found a poem called Wild Geese by Mary Oliver, but it does not seem to be the same thing. Anyway, nice poem, and nice quote.
I think it’s “no mind to receive their image.”
Mary Oliver is one of my favorite poets. But I think you’re right; I don’t think the quote is hers.
Wonderful, wonderful post. We do it all the time, but it was still an epiphany of sorts to read about the wickedness associated with acting irrationally and then rationalizing our actions. I am loving these pencasts.
J. M. Coetzee would agree with the central idea of this post.
I am so glad you like the pencast concept. I am in the process of stabilizing the technological details, then I intend to publish a tutorial on pencasting in the near future.
I am deeply flattered by the Coetzee conjecture.
An animal is an easy target most of the time. They can’t say stop, don’t hit me or please feed me before I starve to death.
I have worked with abused and abandoned animals…I have seen alot of abused animals. Not a one of them deserved that…no one does, animal or person. We seem to not have any respect for life anymore.
Chris, probably your comments relates more to the other article, entitled ‘and vice-versa’ (i.e. why don’t we treat animals more like people). I do agree that a lot of animals are treated badly, but here I was referring to those animals that are treated kindly, and making a point about how we are sometimes more indulgent with what animals do than wit what people do.