Comments on: Brace yourself for the big monetary collapse http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/ none the wiser Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:24:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: mandarine http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9463 mandarine Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:40:14 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9463 As for the issue of jobs, you are viewing it the wrong way around. Imagine you are alone on a desert island and you toil all day long with a hoe to plow a small potato patch. Then imagine you find out a great technique that allows you to grow potatoes without having to plow. You stop toiling, but you still get the potatoes. Now imagine you are two people on the island, both plowing the same patch, except that the land belongs to the other guy. When the new technique is invented, he does not need you anymore, he may keep all the potatoes to himself and leave you to starve in a corner; unless he realizes how unjust the situation has become. The way I see it, the problem of unemployment is essentially a problem of social justice. Sustained growth has hidden or softened the injustice for a while. When the limits of the planet stall growth, the injustice becomes blinding. If I was King of the world, I would require that any worker who loses a job to a machine still gets half what he used to earn before (or any other scheme that makes sure he gets a share in the profits that are made from mechanization). This way, the unions would not oppose the replacement of dumb jobs by machines. And yes, I do agree that we could set all accounts to a non-zero value. As for the issue of jobs, you are viewing it the wrong way around. Imagine you are alone on a desert island and you toil all day long with a hoe to plow a small potato patch. Then imagine you find out a great technique that allows you to grow potatoes without having to plow. You stop toiling, but you still get the potatoes.

Now imagine you are two people on the island, both plowing the same patch, except that the land belongs to the other guy. When the new technique is invented, he does not need you anymore, he may keep all the potatoes to himself and leave you to starve in a corner; unless he realizes how unjust the situation has become.

The way I see it, the problem of unemployment is essentially a problem of social justice. Sustained growth has hidden or softened the injustice for a while. When the limits of the planet stall growth, the injustice becomes blinding.

If I was King of the world, I would require that any worker who loses a job to a machine still gets half what he used to earn before (or any other scheme that makes sure he gets a share in the profits that are made from mechanization). This way, the unions would not oppose the replacement of dumb jobs by machines.

And yes, I do agree that we could set all accounts to a non-zero value.

]]> By: Cunha http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9462 Cunha Fri, 26 Dec 2008 04:53:54 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9462 Great comments, as King how would you address the employment problem? I'm not referring to the lack of work, I'm referring to the fact that productive jobs (jobs that create something useful) are becoming few and far between. Between the advances in manufacturing (Robotics) and sales (websites/servers) and machines (200 ton Combine Harvesters) it would seem that productive jobs are becoming a scarcity. As King, would you be willing to consider parenthood a job? One small suggestion on the savings eraser, you might want to erase all debts but starting over with a set amount of cash (in some form) might help things along. Just start everyone with the same amount. Imagine playing Monopoly starting with no money. The real problem is the concentrated ownership of Natural Resources, when one person in a game of Monopoly owns everything its not very much fun to keep playing, and it certainly wouldn't be any fun to be the child of someone who died and have to take their place at the table. Great comments, as King how would you address the employment problem? I’m not referring to the lack of work, I’m referring to the fact that productive jobs (jobs that create something useful) are becoming few and far between. Between the advances in manufacturing (Robotics) and sales (websites/servers) and machines (200 ton Combine Harvesters) it would seem that productive jobs are becoming a scarcity.

As King, would you be willing to consider parenthood a job?

One small suggestion on the savings eraser, you might want to erase all debts but starting over with a set amount of cash (in some form) might help things along. Just start everyone with the same amount. Imagine playing Monopoly starting with no money.

The real problem is the concentrated ownership of Natural Resources, when one person in a game of Monopoly owns everything its not very much fun to keep playing, and it certainly wouldn’t be any fun to be the child of someone who died and have to take their place at the table.

]]> By: mandarine http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9408 mandarine Wed, 12 Nov 2008 20:38:17 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9408 You deserve more than Secretary of State. How about General Überchamberlain of the Empire? What good is a dictatorship if we cannot make up grandiose titles? You deserve more than Secretary of State. How about General Überchamberlain of the Empire? What good is a dictatorship if we cannot make up grandiose titles?

]]> By: Stuart http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9407 Stuart Wed, 12 Nov 2008 18:56:06 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9407 Ok, now, I've squirrelled away my savings in a hole in a big oak tree, I feel I can vote for you as "King of the World". In fact, I've often thought that a benign dictatorship has several benefits over Western-style democracy. Think of me, after your rise to power and offer me a place in your cabinet, please. Secretary of State for the welfare of farm animals appeals! Joking aside, great blog, Mandarine! Ok, now, I’ve squirrelled away my savings in a hole in a big oak tree, I feel I can vote for you as “King of the World”. In fact, I’ve often thought that a benign dictatorship has several benefits over Western-style democracy.
Think of me, after your rise to power and offer me a place in your cabinet, please. Secretary of State for the welfare of farm animals appeals!
Joking aside, great blog, Mandarine!

]]> By: mandarine http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9403 mandarine Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:19:22 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9403 That's easy. If you save stuff, you work, you make stuff, you keep stuff on the side, and when you need it, you take your stuff from the cellar. But when you save money, you give stuff for someone else to use in exchange of a promise that you can claim other stuff or services for the same 'value' whenever you want in the future. So saving money amounts to giving efforts today against a promise that someone will return that effort to you in the future. If you save a lot of money, you are in essence piling up a huge claim on other people's work later on. That’s easy. If you save stuff, you work, you make stuff, you keep stuff on the side, and when you need it, you take your stuff from the cellar. But when you save money, you give stuff for someone else to use in exchange of a promise that you can claim other stuff or services for the same ‘value’ whenever you want in the future. So saving money amounts to giving efforts today against a promise that someone will return that effort to you in the future. If you save a lot of money, you are in essence piling up a huge claim on other people’s work later on.

]]> By: healingmagichands http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9401 healingmagichands Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:46:24 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9401 Funny, as I clicked here to post my comment I was prepared to say "I will vote for Mandarine for King of the World". So that makes two of us. I was reminded of a statement I listened to years ago while I was listening to a "self help" series called "Changing your relationship with money." The lecturer, who's name escapes me at the moment, spent a good hour talking about money and inviting the listener to define what it actually is. Finally, after setting up several straw men and knocking them down, he defined money as something that represents your life energy. Every time you work for a wage, you are exchanging a precious hour of your life for whatever amount of dollars or euros or yen. So when you spend that dollar, whatever you are exchanging it for represents that many hours or minutes of your life, time you can never get back. I don't always keep that concept in mind, but it helps a lot when I am confronted by a decision like "Do I really want that Raku vase that costs $175? How many hours of my life does it represent (about 6 at my present rate for massage)? Will I get that amount of pleasure out of it?" In the example above, it must have been worth it, because I now have the vase. I mostly agree with your prescription, except that I wish you would not set all savings accounts to zero. With a great deal of scrimping, we have managed to put some small amount of money aside so that we can deal with emergencies when they come up, and also so that when we retire (if we are ever able to. . .) we will have a little slush fund for vacations. Maybe we could put a cap on how high the invesment accounts can be. Anyway, this concept bothers me because I was taught from a very early age that saving for the future was a good thing, and I'm not sure I understand how this now translates to a heavy debt on future generations. Funny, as I clicked here to post my comment I was prepared to say “I will vote for Mandarine for King of the World”. So that makes two of us.

I was reminded of a statement I listened to years ago while I was listening to a “self help” series called “Changing your relationship with money.” The lecturer, who’s name escapes me at the moment, spent a good hour talking about money and inviting the listener to define what it actually is. Finally, after setting up several straw men and knocking them down, he defined money as something that represents your life energy. Every time you work for a wage, you are exchanging a precious hour of your life for whatever amount of dollars or euros or yen. So when you spend that dollar, whatever you are exchanging it for represents that many hours or minutes of your life, time you can never get back. I don’t always keep that concept in mind, but it helps a lot when I am confronted by a decision like “Do I really want that Raku vase that costs $175? How many hours of my life does it represent (about 6 at my present rate for massage)? Will I get that amount of pleasure out of it?” In the example above, it must have been worth it, because I now have the vase.

I mostly agree with your prescription, except that I wish you would not set all savings accounts to zero. With a great deal of scrimping, we have managed to put some small amount of money aside so that we can deal with emergencies when they come up, and also so that when we retire (if we are ever able to. . .) we will have a little slush fund for vacations. Maybe we could put a cap on how high the invesment accounts can be. Anyway, this concept bothers me because I was taught from a very early age that saving for the future was a good thing, and I’m not sure I understand how this now translates to a heavy debt on future generations.

]]> By: mandarine http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9379 mandarine Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:24:19 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9379 Methinks you should chill out with all that election stuff or you are going to OD before you get your chance to vote. P.S. you'll be my Archminister of State for science books, blogs and ghost stories. Methinks you should chill out with all that election stuff or you are going to OD before you get your chance to vote.

P.S. you’ll be my Archminister of State for science books, blogs and ghost stories.

]]> By: Emily Barton http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9378 Emily Barton Fri, 31 Oct 2008 18:33:21 +0000 http://www.wisemandarine.com/brace-yourself-for-the-big-monetary-collapse/#comment-9378 You're not nuts, just an elitist, intellectual snob, and we good, down-home folksy Real American sorts don't need to listen to you, gosh darn it, because everything is going to be fine if we just drill, drill, drill (oh yeah, and kill off those pesky polar bears while we're at it). P.S. I would so vote for you for King of the World, if I could. You’re not nuts, just an elitist, intellectual snob, and we good, down-home folksy Real American sorts don’t need to listen to you, gosh darn it, because everything is going to be fine if we just drill, drill, drill (oh yeah, and kill off those pesky polar bears while we’re at it).

P.S. I would so vote for you for King of the World, if I could.

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